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Published Sep 19, 21
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Well, thanks very much. I intend to offer you all a break for a moment and rely on Mr. Swartz. You have actually been really patient, the 3 of you. I appreciate that very much. Typically, we would certainly have had two panels, yet we didn't recognize how the Us senate would certainly be running today, so in an effort to make certain we survived all the treaties today, we did this as one panel.

Swartz, you explain in your testimony and your declarations that the treaty with Bermuda likewise punctures bank secrecy as well as provides a system for us getting the info we need. There have been some shared legal assistance treaties which contain arrangements associated directly to sharing financial institution documents or various other monetary details.

That was a provision that was composed as well as taken on in the context of the E.U.

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Under that provision, stipulation's possible for feasible requesting party to celebration information as info whether an account exists in the requested countryAsked for or in the case of instance E.U., one of the requested member asked for. Thereafter, the request, if there is a recognition of an account, should be adhered to up with a common common lawful support treaty.

And with regard to Bermuda, our document of collaboration has been great. Our team believe that the document we carry the manufacturing of documents, including financial institution records, is such that we are certain that the arrangements included in this common lawful support treaty, which do need teamwork on the production of records, will certainly suffice to ensure that we get the records we require for our financial investigations and also various other examinations.

Some various other MLATs likewise allow for immediate, non-written type demands to be made. Mr. Chairman, while it is real that the Common Lawful Aid Treaty does call for requests in written type, it was the judgment of the negotiators that it was adequate that, in this situation, with regard to Bermuda, we would be able to acquire quick reactions to our requests and also supply such responses to Bermuda's requests, specifically due to the fact that we have a method already established that will certainly continue, we believe, under the treaty of being able to share those requests with e-mail or via fax.

Legislator Cardin. Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson.

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Bermuda resisted that since they wanted to make sure that the demands were clear and in a more official way. In the settlements, it additionally ended up being clear that they approved that such demand could be made by fax or by email. So the real problem they were concerned regarding was not discovering a rapid ways to make a request, but truly simply taking dental requests off the table.

So we're confident that we've got the means in position that we can make urgent requests of them in a method that will work. Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, if I might include, as a matter of fact, while it is an advantage to be able to make dental requests, in technique, it's extremely uncommon that we do so.

Legislator Cardin. My main worry is just, in immediate issues, that it's not delayed. And also with modern communication, it appears to me that can most likely be managed. I'm a lot more concerned about bank documents. Mr. Johnson, do have any kind of talk about the financial institution documents concern? Mr. Johnson. Again, not especially on the financial institution concern.

The difference in between being able to do a dental request or being able to make use of among these other very rapid ways, we believe, is not substantial. Legislator Cardin. There've been some issues increased regarding the competence of Bermuda legislation relative to loss of proceeds and agencies of criminal offenses.

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Mr. Chairman, we are. The Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty in Article 17 does obligate Bermuda to offer support to the United States in proceedings associating to forfeiture of profits and also agencies of crime, to the degree permitted by the law of Bermuda.

We've had 2 examples of successful requests for restriction and also loss of properties. Both circumstances were a success and we were able to get the funds. As a basic matter, help is readily available under the regulations of Bermuda, and also I do think that is essential to stress and anxiety, with respect to cold, confiscating, and also limiting assets, consisting of for matters relating to terrorism and also terrorism funding.

However it needs to be kept in mind that forfeiture assistance is not restricted to what is allowed under Bermuda's residential law. With respect to an U.S. order, Bermuda can not forfeit a details instrumentality of nondrug offenses, since that power doesn't exist locally. Again, that's limited to agencies in nondrug violation situations.

Senator Cardin. In the Bermuda agreement, there's an arrangement that is not unfamiliar to us, where Bermuda can deny teamwork in funding instances.

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Are we prevented as an outcome of that or is there a means in which we are able to comply under this treaty, even in those cases? Mr. Chairman, we believe as well as we hope we still would be able to work together.

We have that experience with various other countries that have placed comparable interpretations on the common lawful assistance responsibilities, as well as we've been able to function out plans in a number of situations that enable us to get proof or talk about whether the evidence is significant enough to go forward with some kind of further actions being taken.

Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson. Yes, Senator, if I could simply contribute to that, one of the factors this treaty took as long it did to negotiate as well as end is due to the fact that it was necessary to us to see to it that there wasn't a specific restriction on aid in resources instances in the treaty itself.

Swartz related to you. And also that method we believe that assists preserve the principle that's crucial to us, that such teamwork should be offered, irrespective of the sort of instance. And also we believe this has actually likewise substantiated with a few other nations, where despite similar issues regarding cooperation in resources instances, they have, for instance, had the ability to offer support to the nonpenalty phase of a test or an additional celebration investigation.

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Legislator Cardin. But they do hold the right under this treaty to reject cooperation where the United States criminal justice system is looking for death sentence? Mr. Johnson. Senator, they hold the right under the treaty to not provide help if are in contrast to public law or their vital interests, as well as they have informed us that they analyze that to permit them, in death sentence situations, to exercise that.

Legislator Cardin. I comprehend that. I simply wanted to make it clear that they would certainly not be an offense of the treaty. We recognize their interpretation, that if there was a situation pending below that we needed their help, where, clearly, the prosecutors were seeking the death fine, Bermuda could choose not to cooperate under this treaty (foreign tax credit).

If I can claim, Mr. Chairman, notably, the treaty would need, considering that this would be a denial under Write-up 3 of the treaty, that initially there had to be appointments with the United States, prior to that rejection can go forward. And I think that's an essential aspect of the settlement that Mr.

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Rather than having an explicit provisionSpecific stipulation is one of a set of collection under which assistance may support denied after refuted, appointment, as well as other things, that there must be consideration as to whether assistance can aid given, provided to such conditions as the requested country deems nationRegards

As well as I believe that would certainly be useful for us to have that info in this committee. Mr. Swartz. Thank you. foreign tax credit. We would certainly be delighted to provide that. Senator Cardin. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the easiest work right here, considering that this contract was formerly authorized by this committee. As I claimed in my opening, we approved it far too late in the 111th Congress for activity.

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Have there been any type of significant modifications in our investment connection with Rwanda since last November when you gave testimony on this treaty? What we have actually seen because last November is an increase in United States investment in Rwanda, as well as I can give you a couple of examples.

Also, in February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is mosting likely to open up a major resort in Kigali. As well as, additionally, Marriott Hotels is entering to assist in the nation's expanding friendliness industry. So I would say that, provided this pattern of increased financial investment, that it is vital that the securities be afforded for them.

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capitalists. Senator Cardin. I thanks for that (foreign tax credit). You additionally mentioned the fact that the United States is checking out various other bilateral investment treaties in Africa. I believe you discussed one various other country. I assume we have 5 current bilateral investment treaties in Africa. Can you just show us other countries that the United States has revealed interest in bargaining treaties? Ms.

Legislator Cardin. Thank you. I have actually been told by the team that I ought to ask the concern of whether the administration still sustains the Senate ratification of the Rwanda treaty, since it was held over from the last Congress. So, for the record? Ms. Mc, Carthy. We definitely do. Senator Cardin.



I think that finishes the questioning. I do appreciate your persistence with the committee and thank you very a lot for your testimony today.

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Solution. As laid out listed below, we want to give upgraded details on reported UNITED STATE investment task in Rwanda. Aside from these updates, the responses provided by the Division's witness in the 111th Congress stay accurate. In 2009, the stock of UNITED STATE foreign direct investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis).

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And I assume that would certainly be helpful for us to have that information in this board. Mr. Swartz. Thanks. We would certainly be pleased to provide that. Senator Cardin. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the simplest work below, considering that this agreement was formerly authorized by this committee. As I stated in my opening, we approved it far too late in the 111th Congress for activity.

Have there been any type of significant changes in our investment relationship with Rwanda since last November when you provided statement on this treaty? What we have actually seen because last November is a boost in United States financial investment in Rwanda, and also I can give you a couple of examples.

In February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is going to open up a major resort in Kigali. And also, also, Marriott Hotels is entering to assist in the nation's expanding hospitality market. I would claim that, given this pattern of increased financial investment, that it is important that the defenses be managed for them.

capitalists. Legislator Cardin (foreign tax credit). I thank you for that. You additionally discussed the truth that the United States is exploring other bilateral investment treaties in Africa. I think you stated one other nation. I believe we have 5 current reciprocal investment treaties in Africa. Can you just show us various other nations that the United States has revealed interest in bargaining treaties? Ms.

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Senator Cardin. Thank you. I've been told by the team that I must ask the question of whether the management still supports the Senate approval of the Rwanda treaty, because it was held over from the last Congress. For the record? Ms. Mc, Carthy. We certainly do. Senator Cardin.

I assume that finishes the examining. We may have some additional questions for the record. As you understand, the document continues to be open for 1 day, so you obtain a break. That's a rather rapid turnaround time for this board. Yet I do value your perseverance with the board and thanks quite for your testimony today.

Answer. As established out listed below, we would certainly such as to supply updated information on reported U.S. investment activity in Rwanda. Besides these updates, the responses supplied by the Department's witness in the 111th Congress remain precise. In 2009, the stock of UNITED STATE foreign straight financial investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis).

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